Women's fastpitch gets tv time | Open Fastpitch Softball Board. | Forum

Men don't get exposure from the tv, but if it did people would see, that  most all men hide the ball and throw vertical movement down and up with change ups having horazontal  movement and vertical movement from lack of speed.. Men's drops are peel drops and rise balls hop. 

Girls all the way up to the elite throw rollover drops and do the back arm swing exposing the ball and grip 360 degrees+. Their rollover drop hard on the shoulder, elbow, and wrist.

Why do girls pitch this way?

I think it is from being taught by people who call themselfs pitching coaches. Most don't have a clue and probably never threw a ball underhand before in their lives.

There is no licence or certification required to be a pitching coach, so there are thousands of them out in the girls fastball world making big money teaching, something that is meant to be simple, back arm swings, rollover drops, curves and screwballs…

There are three pitches in the mens game; up, down and the change up.

Vertical movement and change ups are what make hitting fastpitch harder than baseball that has no rise ball.

Girls are taught to throw overhand like boys.

Bill Hillhouse and Doug Gillis teach girls how to pitch like the two foot on men pitchers used to do.

I see more and more girls schooled by these two guys,  on tv and at the ball parks.

Keep up the good work guys and some day all girls, all the way up to the elite, will be throwing peel drops and hiding the ball.

This will result in less injuries and more competitive play

Thanks Gary,

I have Bill's DVD's  to help correct my 16 yr old dd's pitching. Bill is doing a geat job, helping pitching coaches teach the right stuff. The peel drop and hiding the ball is what most don't teach, and it's the true way.

I pitched when I was younger. I used to watch Harvey Sterkle, Joe Lynch, John Spring,and Charlie Richard, every night growing up, at SA field in Aurora, Ilinois. Sealmasters were 4 time ASA national champs. I wanted to be just like them.

I followed Lynch and Roy Burleson's as a 3 time Alll Navy team member. They pitched with the San Diego Sub base. I played for the Sub base in Norfolk, Va.

I got lucky enought to say I got wins against Joe Lynch in Clearwater, Fl. Ty Stoflet in Lancaster, Pa., with help from my Navy team mates. I also was lucky to have played against and beat Harvey Sterkle my Idol  growing up. I was with a team out of Columbus, Ohio. We were state champs and lossers in the regionals to Ann Arbor, Michigan. the next year, 73, I moved home and sat the bench with Home Saving and Sterkle, Brubaker, and Pete Carlson…Played in Sunnyvale, Calif. 74-75. Camarillo, Calif.76. and Logan, West Va. 77.

Found better things to do like fish, camp, fisbee disc golf in 78.

Nerves couldn't take sitting on the bench watching my team mates K and pop out, when all we needed was a base hit to score.

At the end I would ask my team mates what they did at bat pertending like I missed their wasted at bats.

I heard when the game got to where it was no fun any more, it was time to hang em up and find something fun to do and I did.

My peeves are, watching men throw today with one foot on, leaping with two feet off the ground and replanting. The other peeve is watching girls, all the way up to the elite,  swing the arm back and throw rollover drops.

Thank God for Bill Hillhouse, Doug Gillis, and the other men pitchers who teach the rights and wrongs of pitching with simple to understand reasons.

Girls fastpitch can only get better with guys like them. doug

The strike zone. The whith of the zone stays the same,but the lenght and height of the zone changes according to the hitters knees and upper body.  The plate does not move.  A ball in the zone is hit hard,because the best pitch is not a strike,but one that appears to be a strike. A great pitch is deceptive change up, because batters swing and miss usually misses way bebore it gets to the plate. A ball at the bottom left of the zone makes it harder to slap and can help make the right handed hitter hit the ball to the second base side of the field. Slappers can slap with 2 strikes and stay up till they get their pitch wearing down the pitcher. There isn't much difference in a  drag bunt and a slap. They a both attempts to dink the ball, but slapping is allowed.

A drop that falls off the table at THE CORNER is harder to make solid contact with than a drop with a horizontal tail.

A rise that hops straight up is harder to make good contact with, than a rise up and away.

I'm talking top notch mens fastpitch and this can be applied to girls high school ball up to the elite womens game.

Ibiff, All elite men throw the same in that they all hide the ball and throw down and dirty peel drops, and they don't roll or snap the wrist over. Men "world beaters", have good rise balls that hop. Not all men, can make it hop, but usually the rise is a waste pitch when ahead of the batter or to get an infield pop up in a bunt situation. Men don't throw rise balls for strikes or gruve them. Men might have drop change ups , but the better change was off the rise grip hitting the side to kill speed and get all spin. So men have peel drops that they hope fall striaght down at the plate drasticly, not an arcing dramatical drop, but sharp.

Mark, the difference in fastpitch and baseball is the rise ball and drop ball. A fastpitched big softball can break straight up and down with correct pure forward or back spin. Baseball has lots of speed but it has a longer distance to travel and the ball dosn't break up. The baseball curves or screws and sinks… they throw off speed pitches also. In baseball a hitter has the lenght of the bat because he can reach out and hit a fastball on the outside. In softball they have only have the whith of the bat, and a ball not hit solidly goes up in the air or in the dirt and hopefully a routine gound out. This where you put the ball, to get ahead by challanging the hitter to hit your pitch, where you the pitcher wants it to go if they do hit it,but hopefully they take a strike or two because it's not their pitch. Your are ahead in the count now and can get a k or a pop up from a change up or one at the eyes. You Might get a pop up or a K, but it's a waste pitch and you don't to throw it close enough for the hitter to hit the ball. You want the hitter to swing a a bad pitch because they are in the hole. If nothing happens with  the waste in the dirt, above the zone or off speed, you are still ahead and they can't dig in. Location is most important, and the go to location is the same, inside on the lefty to keep them from slapping and outside on the righty hoping to keep the ball to the second base side of the infield. Inside on a right hander if he's up in front of the plate. Why curve or screw the ball to the corner?  One pitch at a time and consentration on every pitch. It's pitching, not throwing, that wins games. A thrower isn't a pitcher until they develope a good change up and they have conidence enough to throw it two and three times in a row against the best long ball hitters.

Bob Petnik; an old coach of mine, brother of pitcher Birtha Regan Tickey, ASA womens HOFer, Catcher and Manager to Joe Lynch, Roy Burleson, All Navy pitchers and ASA HOFers. Bob is one of the only inlisted personel that had something named after him. After he retired from 20 years duty, the Sub base in San Diego named the softball field, Bob Petnik Field.

Bob told me fastpitch was 95% pitching and 5% bunting…I transferd to the sub base in Norfolk, Va. my last 3 years and we held the All Navy title for the 3 years.

Mark,

I'm talking from my memories, and they are just my opinions, and I'm tring to keep it simple.

I watch very little men's  ISC ball on the web any more. I have seen enough, and could care less if I ever watch men leap with  both feet off the ground, replant and throw asprins from so close to the plate. Evolution of the game , I could care less . The pitching rule  changed to one foot on, shortly after I hung em up, in the early 80s.

Guys could not play both ASA and ISC in the same season until whenever. The ISC pitcher was allowed to do whatever, as long as it was underhand. With two feet on still  I asume, some one figured how to crow hop with the rocking style delivery, by making the arm circle more than 360 degrees. The back arm swing was the extra arm movement needed, to get in the crow hop/replant, with out pausing the arm movement, like the guys do today. they leap holding the 9 O'clock position till the replant. This is where the girls got their back arm swing from.

The ISF 2010 pitching rule change, now lets women and men leap jump or drag, as long as the arm does not pause. Perfect for the back arm swing to get a bird hop in. 

In  early 70s, pitchers from the ISC teams, mostly west of the mississippi, joined some midwest ASA teams and used the rocking style delivery and there was controversy on how these guys could leap so far with out replanting. It was over looked, for a short time at the ASA nationals, before the replant was finally made illegal.

So I guess the guys will go back to the rocking style, at the next ISF worlds, because they won't be allowed to stop or pause their arm movement one they start foward. They will be allowed the back arm swing and that extra behind the back swiing will allow time to get the replant in.

There were plenty illegal pitches called at the WCWS this  year  because of both feet of the ground at the same time, and replanting.

Too many pitching rules in both games now, mens and womens.

So I don't care and understand exactly, your question up and down in relation to what? the world, the eyes level, the bat swing plain level….

I do know that Watley hits  the ball in front of the plate before it breaks and she gets on. Mostly hits, but it wouldn't matter if she were on base from  errors, because she gets on by putting the ball in play,and because she sees the ball better up there and has the best bat control.

I know more rise balls are hit in the cheap seats than drop balls. I don't think curves and screw balls are needed in fastpitch at the top level. I also think becaue the bat is round and not flat, rise ballls with pure backspin that hop over the bat and drop balls with pure forward spin the fall off the table, without a screw or curve tail, are where it at, untill the rules allow flat sided pattle bats.

I'm old and tired and have to stop fighting this keyboard.

I love talking and debateing the game and I have a phone # if anyone is interested.

Doug Noble said:

Again see what Bill Hillhouse says here at fastpitch tv. There are three parts to the video on this topic. Just scroll up. Very worth watching.

So why did you prefer a straight down break to a down and in break?  

Doug Noble said:

meant as little horizontal  movement as posible.

also I had plenty horizontal movement on my change

 up.

 

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I do love a change with late movement – of any kind. Really closes the deal just when the hitter is thinking they have held back enough to get a little bit of barrel on the ball. So why did you want as little horizontal movement as possible on your drop?